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    <title data-ignore-plain-text>Helen Joyce: Debunking the Myth of &ldquo;Conversion Therapy&rdquo;</title>
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            Plot twist: Helen interviews me!͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;͏‌&nbsp;
        
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  <a href="https://share.transistor.fm/s/1583015e" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;"><img class="section-scaleable-image" src="https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/621ca171a1e1c560d7d8c356/75f67406-3da9-4429-a3d7-fa08c7966cd9/Helen+Joyce+Instagram.jpg?content-type=image%2Fjpeg&amp;format=750w" width="594" alt="YouTube thumbnail for You Must Be Some Kind of Therapist Podcast Episode 9 with Amy Sousa — Emotional Empowerment Through Embodied Awareness" style="font-size:.6630127298444131em;display:block;border:0;text-decoration:none;line-height:0;background-color:transparent;font-weight:normal;height:auto;width:100%;max-width:100%;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;"></a>


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    <td valign="top" class="section-text-area section-content-cell padding-mobile-both" style="padding-top:11px;padding-right:44px;padding-bottom:11px;padding-left:44px;color:#31393a;background-color:transparent;">
      <h4 style="color:inherit;margin:1.414em 0 .5em;font-weight:400;line-height:1.25em;font-size:1.3256249999999998em;mso-line-height-alt:1.3256249999999998em;margin-top:0;font-family:Palatino, Palladio, Baskerville, 'Nimbus Roman No9 L', Garamond, 'Century Schoolbook', serif;letter-spacing:.02em;"><a href="https://share.transistor.fm/s/be5340b9" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">Episode 11 with Helen Joyce: Debunking the Myth of “Conversion Therapy”</a></h4><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">I recently emerged victorious from a harrowing battle and successfully defended myself against false allegations of “conversion therapy.” Part of how I got through the stress of it all was envisioning that some day I would be able to use my story to encourage and inspire others. But I couldn’t have imagined that I would get to share it with the illustrious Helen Joyce.</p><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Under any other circumstances I would have loved to interview Helen. But in this conversation, she actually interviewed <em>me</em>, in the hopes that my story could help her organization demonstrate to UK officials how including “gender identity change efforts” in its "conversion therapy bans” could backfire.&nbsp;</p><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">So today, this is my story: where I started off; my experiences as a gender-affirming therapist; what brought me around to seeing matters differently; why I decided to take a stand against gender ideology and medicalization; how I found the courage to share my views publicly; who targeted me, and why; how I defeated them; and what I want lawmakers around the world to understand about these proposed “conversion therapy bans” (hint: they’re not what they seem.)&nbsp;</p><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">This is a very timely conversation, so I bumped it to the front of the queue and am publishing it right away. I hope to have Helen back another time to discuss her own ideas. But for now, I really appreciate this opportunity to share my story with Helen, and the world. If I do say so myself, this is an important conversation for therapists, governing bodies, lawmakers, those seeking therapy, and anyone who cares about the treatment of gender issues in today’s society.</p><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Helen Joyce is author of “TRANS: When Ideology Meets Reality”, published in July 2021 by OneWorld and in paperback since May 2022. A <em>Times</em> of London and <em>Spectator</em> book of the year, it is a UK and Amazon top ten bestseller. It received rave reviews in publications ranging from the <em>Telegraph</em> to the <em>New York Times</em>, and endorsements from, among others, Daniel Dennett (“A sane, humane book”), Lionel Shriver (“Utterly unintimidated by extremist orthodoxy”) and Richard Dawkins (“Thoroughly researched, passionate and very brave”). Helen now works as Director of Advocacy for Sex Matters, a human-rights organization that campaigns for sex-based rights. Her journalism can be found on her website: <a href="http://thehelenjoyce.com/" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">thehelenjoyce.com</a>.</p><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;margin-bottom:0;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Find the episode on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgj5mELe7dL_v-QbyoN6lwg" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">YouTube</a> or <a href="https://share.transistor.fm/s/be5340b9" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">wherever you get your podcasts</a>.</p>
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      <h4 style="color:inherit;margin:1.414em 0 .5em;font-weight:400;line-height:1.25em;font-size:1.3256249999999998em;mso-line-height-alt:1.3256249999999998em;margin-top:0;font-family:Palatino, Palladio, Baskerville, 'Nimbus Roman No9 L', Garamond, 'Century Schoolbook', serif;letter-spacing:.02em;">A slight change of schedule</h4><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Last week, I announced that my episode with Helen would be squeezed in as a bonus and that this week’s episode would be with <a href="https://somenuanceplease.substack.com" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">Michelle Alleva</a>. I’m still eager to share Michelle’s interview with you in the near future, but I need to change up the order a bit, in order to space out episodes on gender (everyone’s favorite subject, apparently!) with other topics of interest. </p><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">So, what do I have in store for you next week? Well, looking at what’s in the queue, could be an interview about psychedelics, dream interpretation, giftedness, or race. I haven’t decided yet. I hope you’ll tune in, even if it isn’t about gender. Remember when life was about other things?</p><h4 style="color:inherit;margin:1.414em 0 .5em;font-weight:400;line-height:1.25em;font-size:1.3256249999999998em;mso-line-height-alt:1.3256249999999998em;font-family:Palatino, Palladio, Baskerville, 'Nimbus Roman No9 L', Garamond, 'Century Schoolbook', serif;letter-spacing:.02em;">Ways to support the show</h4><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">You can <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgj5mELe7dL_v-QbyoN6lwg" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">subscribe to my YouTube channel</a>; like, rate, and/or review the podcast on <a href="https://www.sometherapist.com/home#Listen-to-the-Podcast" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">your listening platform of choice</a>; share an episode with a friend or on social media; <a href="https://www.sometherapist.com/shop" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">shop for items I’ve personally curated to support your wellbeing</a>; or <a href="https://www.patreon.com/sometherapist" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">donate to my Patreon</a>. </p><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Plus, as mentioned in <a href="https://www.sometherapist.com/campaigns/view-campaign/7Vgxf1DB02fhjOazP3w0PbhotC3-Fuz9YhIe_G3CDdsjy6dIfWSpn6WIkIL_yqLZixztw5Uwnx1H-7bpJx570eBWLg38b-kR" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">last week’s email announcement</a>, you can donate to <em><a href="https://gofund.me/29dc464e" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;"><strong>Daquiris for Detransitioners</strong></a></em>, or leave some comments on <a href="https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgj5mELe7dL_v-QbyoN6lwg" rel="nofollow" style="color:#cc9b6a !important;">YouTube</a> about what you found particularly interesting or helpful.</p><p class="" style="color:inherit;font-size:.9375em;line-height:1.618em;margin:0 0 1.25em 0;font-weight:normal;margin-bottom:0;font-family:'DejaVu Sans Condensed', 'Liberation Sans', 'Nimbus Sans L', 'Helvetica Neue', Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif;">Every little bit of encouragement helps a baby podcaster grow her wings!</p>
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